Riding Tandem

Vivian Kvam (00:01)
Hey, welcome into this podcast. I'm excited to have Dylan here with me, Dylan DeRosiro, and he's with Nebraska Innovation Labs. And I'm gonna start this episode by just saying from the beginning, I don't know much about what we're gonna talk about today, which I think is really cool. So we're gonna be talking about all kinds of fun things with software and app development. And I am a total, like, don't.

Dillon De Rozairo (00:20)
Yeah.

Vivian Kvam (00:27)
I'm a blank canvas when it comes to this, so I'm excited to learn. But welcome. Thanks for coming on, Dylan.

Dillon De Rozairo (00:33)
Yeah, no, thank you for having me. Excited to chat.

Vivian Kvam (00:36)
Yeah. So Dylan and I actually met at kind of like an entrepreneurial mixer, a local one here in the local area. And I really didn't get to talk with you much at all, but you had a really cool digital business card. And I think we connected the most over that because it took me a minute to like set up. And then you had a really cool follow up with that. And we chatted and then we're like, OK, we should totally do a podcast. But why don't we start there real quick? Like people are talking about these digital.

Dillon De Rozairo (00:51)
Yup.

Vivian Kvam (01:05)
business cards, now that you've used it for a while, what do you think?

Dillon De Rozairo (01:09)
So it's an interesting thing. At first, I'm a, oddly enough, decently tech savvy person. I'm not by any means a developer or anything, so I'm the only non -developer in the company, but I'm a decently techie person. I like cool new tech, personally, or for business, or whatever it might be. And so when I thought of the business card, or at least when I was starting out, I was like, okay, I need a business card. I knew, obviously, there's the standard, it's not paper, but physical one that you give out to everyone, and you just order hundreds of them.

And to me it always, and I think it's pretty common that most people throw it away somewhat. They may use it, but then they end up throwing it away. So there's the whole, will they throw it away and never contact me? Will they throw it away after they're done? And you know, you get into the whole environmental thing as well with that. And what I realized is, and you also have to carry a stack. Like I've been to events where you hand out like 30 of them. And I, I have physical ones as well. I rarely use them, but to carry around 30 in your pocket or something is not very easy. So.

Vivian Kvam (01:43)
Mm -hmm.

You're right.

Dillon De Rozairo (02:05)
kind of my outlook was, okay, let me get a digital one, because it's easy, you can always have it on you, and they're pretty kind of dynamic or versatile, because you can have the card that you tap to your phone, but you can have a QR code as well that still looks really good. And so I kind of went in with that. My kind of experience with it has been interesting. Sometimes people will say, hey, do you have a business card? And I'll say, yeah, you know, you got your phone on you. And then I'll, you know, go to tap or give them a QR code. And they say, nevermind, which is a little interesting when you have that. And it's,

You know, a lot of the times it's, you know, I just try to kind of get around it then and just say, hey, you know, are you on LinkedIn? And not only that kind of works, so not a huge deal there, but it's pretty well -recepted. A lot of people do like it. I've had some people say that they're going to get one. A lot of the people kind of in my close circle use one as well. So I think they're kind of a good way to stand out a little bit in a bit of a newer way of kind of getting information across. You can get so much more information across.

Vivian Kvam (02:57)
Mm -hmm.

Dillon De Rozairo (03:01)
Mine has not only my information, like my phone number and email and everything like that, but it has a company email or website. You can do social media links. You can provide so much more than you can on a little physical card. So I thought it's pretty good so far. Rarely any negatives. It's just, I think there's a little bit, it's still somewhat in the early stages.

Vivian Kvam (03:09)
Mm -hmm.

Right. Yeah. And I mean, it does stand out. And we, I guess we're not going to talk the whole episode about business cards and networking and stuff. There's other episodes for that, but it does stand out, right? Like it is a conversation piece. And to your point, whether that goes all positive or you have a sprinkling of, you know, a little more negative, that's still a conversation piece, right? So you can have a conversation about it, which is cool. And I did like the idea that you can change things. So it's has that dynamic, you know, ability to change things.

Dillon De Rozairo (03:27)
Yes.

Vivian Kvam (03:49)
funny story. So we just ordered business cards. My business partner, Michaela, ordered them. She won't mind that I tell a story. And she ordered her business cards. She ordered mine. We of course, like looked at everything. Definitely when we receive them, my business card has her email on it, you know, and we can't change it. So now we have this box of cards and we're just rolling with it. I'm literally rolling around with business cards right now with her email and I'm using it as a conversation piece because I'm not going to throw them away. So speaking of right, like,

This is real life business. This is what happens.

Dillon De Rozairo (04:18)
Yeah. No, a hundred percent. And that's like another great thing, right? As you started that, what you said is as well as like, you know, the promotions happen all the time. And so being able to change your title or you get a new cell phone number, whatever it might be, or you decide to change your email. I've contemplated changing my email because mine's currently my first name and my last name at anyinnovationlabs .com. And it's so long because my last name's long as well. And so I thought about just doing my first name at anyinnovationlabs .com. But, you know, if I had...

Vivian Kvam (04:40)
long yeah

Dillon De Rozairo (04:48)
you know, a hundred, maybe a thousand business cards printed out with my name or my email and having to get it changed, that's just a whole piece as well. So that's also a really good kind of reason to get a digital business card as well. So.

Vivian Kvam (04:50)
Mm -hmm.

Yeah, that's fun. Okay, and here's where we put in the sponsor ad for digital business cards. I'm kidding. We don't have one of those. Okay, let's talk about Nebraska Innovation Labs. It did strike me as so awesome as we talked prior to this interview, and you just mentioned it. You're the only one on your team who is not a developer. But what does Nebraska Innovation Labs do?

Dillon De Rozairo (05:05)
Yeah, yeah, exactly. It'd be awesome.

Vivian Kvam (05:26)
and tell us a little bit about your role, because I think it's very interesting that it's a not -for -profit software and app development company, and there was a lot of intriguing conversation around that that I want to have with you. So what is it? What is Nebraska Innovation Labs? What are you doing over there?

Dillon De Rozairo (05:31)
Mm.

Yeah. Yeah. So you kind of nailed on the head, it's a not -for -profit software and app development company and kind of actually stating what it is. Is it really the goal of the company is to help mainly startup founders or entrepreneurs, but even business owners get access to tech that's affordable. Tech being mostly stuff that's custom built. So we're not helping them set up Microsoft office or whatever it might be, but rather,

Hey, I want to build the next Uber and we'll help you build the app from the ground up at a very low cost. The goal of the company kind of was based on the fact that before the cost of development was so high that a lot of people would either be discouraged, it would drag on the process of starting up a company, whatever it might be, a million and one kind of obstacles and barriers. And our goal is to kind of knock it down and get people here in the U S access to local development at a low cost. So you're not, you know,

Vivian Kvam (06:09)
Mm -hmm.

Dillon De Rozairo (06:36)
There's obviously the options previously were to use other development shops here in the U .S. and a lot of times that was a higher price tag, which was a barrier. Or you look at going overseas and a lot of people don't know how to navigate that as well in terms of, you know, time zone differences. How are you to collaborate with them if you can never really sit down and whiteboard with them? You know, worries about quality because there is a bit of a misconception in terms of overseas quality that it actually is better than most people think. And for the cost you pay, it's really good. So that's always an option as well that we're very upfront about, but.

Vivian Kvam (07:01)
Mm.

Dillon De Rozairo (07:06)
getting access to local development here at a pretty low cost while being able to talk to the team, come in whenever you want, we even allow you to hire the team at the end of the development. It's a really open concept behind the Innovation Labs. And the goal really is to grow Nebraska mainly, especially to start, but really the whole ecosystem. From the talent side, we'll always be Nebraska based, but from a kind of building company standpoint, I wouldn't see why.

we wouldn't want to bring companies from outside of Nebraska in to build stuff just because getting them access to low cost development's great and we're building up Nebraska's tech talent. So we're kind of hitting two birds with one stone there in building companies by lowering the barriers, but then also giving kind of in how our model operates as we paired junior and senior tech talent to do this low cost development is they're getting access to kind of an unparalleled learning and working opportunity and getting an unprecedented item for their portfolio in that we have

people ranging from in their teens to late 20s that are either interns or kind of entry level developers with us junior developers, getting access to doing large percents of building a platform from scratch. They're doing work that is not often seen in the intern or entry level job market. And what they get out of that is obviously, you know, it's great for their resume and everything, but they can actually go out even when they're interviewing and everything and it sets them so far ahead of their peers.

Vivian Kvam (08:17)
Mm -hmm.

Dillon De Rozairo (08:28)
that they can kind of get a leg up in today's competitive job market, which is not, it's not just in tech, it's everywhere. I can attest to that being, I come from a business background, so business major through school is even when I was applying for internships and post -grad full -time opportunities, it's very competitive out there. So any leg up you can get. And a lot of the times, normally that certifications and other stuff that people can easily attain or somewhat easily attain versus this is so rare that you really will somewhat, I'm not gonna say be in the top 1%.

for kind of experience in your field, but I would think you'd get very high up there by coming and working on a project with us.

Vivian Kvam (09:06)
So that was one of the things I remember sticking out was just how you are developing new talent, whether that's young talent or just somebody maybe is getting started, right? I suppose it doesn't have to be young, age -based, but if they're looking for that learning and working opportunity, how are you finding those folks or are they finding you? And then I think one of the questions that often comes up when people think about models like these is,

how hard is it to retain them because they are in such a like, you know, figuring it out stage of their careers. How are you guys going about that with Nebraska Innovation Labs?

Dillon De Rozairo (09:46)
Yeah, so finding them has been a mix of actually them coming to us and then us reaching out and kind of working with people. We have kind of our job positions, I guess you could say, posted in a few different places. So that kind of gets people coming to us, but also somewhat outreach as well, a bit of a mix. And then we work with a lot of academic institutions here. Kind of one of the, I guess, not secondary objectives, but kind of beliefs in the company on top of building companies and building talent.

is to help underserved communities and kind of helping people who have less of a kind of chance. So while working with obviously universities and all of that, we're also working with academic institutions of all kinds, we're even working with organizations like Avenue Scholars here in Omaha that help students that are transitioning from high school to college and coming from various backgrounds and giving students a chance who have no development experience, but giving them an opportunity to get some.

and really get some valuable experience as well. In terms of retaining them, so this is actually kind of a tricky question in that we don't necessarily want to retain them because of the opportunity we're giving. So it's not that we're trying to just let them go after every project, but what we'd rather do is we take them on, try to put them through a project to build up some skills for them. And then what we try to do is create what I call exit funnels for them. So there's a few different exit funnels. The first and kind of the most ideal one is we encourage the founders to bring them.

Vivian Kvam (10:51)
Mm -hmm.

Dillon De Rozairo (11:08)
or whoever we built some software or an app for. And we basically, the reasoning behind it is who's gonna know what was built better than the team that built it. And that saves you the time and cost associated with bringing others up to speed. And so, and it continues your somewhat development, whether it's just basic maintenance or, you know, working on your roadmap or whether your roadmap's quickly accelerated into kind of building a version two, you're getting still using the same model and whether it's with continued work with us as such and we maintain your team just because,

Vivian Kvam (11:17)
Mm -hmm.

Dillon De Rozairo (11:38)
A lot of times, day one of having an MVP, you're not going to have an office or even maybe be able to manage your team and do stuff like payroll. We can do that at still a low cost and kind of build that. But ideally, the goal is for at some point for you to take on the team, have your own office space, and have your own internal development team so that you can succeed and you're not dependent on another organization. So that's kind of the number one route that, once again, helps the founder getting continued access to low cost development, but then also helps those kind of junior developers.

is the best term for them, get access to now a full -time career. Because what we do is it's not contracted at all, but it's more like project -based. So it's not going to be employment for a certain, for somewhat indefinite employment. It's employment for the time that the project will take, which can range a few months to like four, six, maybe nine months in total, depending on the project size. So that's kind of the number one exit funnel.

Vivian Kvam (12:16)
Mm -hmm.

Dillon De Rozairo (12:35)
The second exit funnel we have is depending on kind of the persons, not only their goals, but the kind of person they are as well is if they're kind of a natural born leader or they have leadership potential, what we'll do is we'll work with them, put them on a few projects and kind of build them up into a senior person to eventually have people under them. And what that might be is, you know, their first project, they're just at a junior level working with a few other junior people and a senior person or a few senior people and building something out. And then the next project, they're somewhat in between the junior team and the senior team. So like,

hey, I understand how the processes work, feel free to come to me. And they're just a bit more of an in -between before they go to a senior person asking questions. And I think they not only will know the processes better, but they'll kind of been in the shoes of, hey, I helped a startup build something. And as a lot of people know, the startup scene is not, it's not the easiest and it's not the most straightforward, it's not streamlined. So we're navigating that process. And then the final process that we kind of do is we try to work with companies here of all sizes, whether it's another startup, all the way through to a big,

Vivian Kvam (13:24)
Right.

Dillon De Rozairo (13:34)
the biggest players in the state and try to let their HR teams know, hey, here's what we're building in terms of talent and we'd love to work with you to warm entry into them. So that's not only giving you references and working with you and the junior developer on, here's how we're going to transition you over to them. Making sure if you're looking for a certain kind of experience that we can factor that in if it's applicable to our projects.

and kind of really helping them get access to good talent because there's a huge demand for experienced tech talent and not a huge supply. And then on the other end of that, which we're kind of picking out of to build up is there's a huge supply of inexperienced tech talent and not a huge demand just because of how much supply there is. And there's not really much bridging the gap. So now we're there kind of bridge the gap. So.

Vivian Kvam (14:19)
It's very cool. It's such an interesting model, I think, to go after. I'm curious with this, too. So again, I'm going to ask some questions. And you know that I'm not familiar with this space, which I think is fun, because I think a lot of people aren't. So I'm going to just say, raise my hand and ask questions. I know that sometimes within startup world, when they are building out, when they're startup

revolves around a piece of tech. So if they want to build an app or software, and that's really what the product is. Oftentimes, a developer will come on as a partner, where they're going to get a certain amount of value, evaluation out of that. How does that play in with the model that you're using? Is that an option, or how do you see startups navigate that? And as I'm asking that, maybe that's not standard. Maybe those are just the stories I've heard. So I'm kind of curious how that works.

Dillon De Rozairo (15:11)
Yeah. No, that's definitely sometimes the case as well. I think it just depends on the founder and kind of their goals and maybe even somewhat their personality. If they're a bit more of the lone wolf type and they just need help in the tech space, but they don't want a full on partner. They might not, but it's not uncommon. We somewhat encourage that as well. Our somewhat senior people are also up for grabs. A lot of the times these senior people are.

Vivian Kvam (15:25)
Mm -hmm.

Dillon De Rozairo (15:36)
You know coming from either another job or they're somewhat maybe doing this retirement thing whatever might be in a ton of different situations and Our senior developers only work part -time. That's how we also keep the cost low is they're there to somewhat be a teacher and the junior developers of the students So I was related to the teacher will never do your homework for you, but they'll help you get it done And so because of that they're there part -time and at the end of it. They're also somewhat

very knowledgeable to where they could come onto your team as well. They could be brought on for maybe an equity piece as they know it back to front and they can speak on it at the highest level versus the junior team obviously built it, but they were building it under somewhat instruction. So that's definitely an option as well for the startups. We kind of have that on the table as well. That's what I really do think is a pro of kind of working with us or at least a pro of the Innovation Labs model is that all of our talents up for grabs and all of our teams are dedicated as well because we are cyclically.

sorry, cycling through so much talent, we don't have to hold on to any and therefore we don't have a set team that is working on five or six or however many projects at the same time. We bring on talent and then release talent and send them out into our exit funnels as need be. So you have a dedicated team working on your project. So they're not ever slammed up against two deadlines or under too much pressure where they might underperform on one thing. They're fully dedicated to your project and because of that, they're most knowledgeable. In it, they're not, you know,

anything else and then they're up for grabs at the end on both the senior and junior levels.

Vivian Kvam (17:05)
Pretty cool, I like it. What led you to this Dylan? Like how did you get involved in this space?

Dillon De Rozairo (17:13)
Yeah, so a bit of a semi -background on that as well as I, outside of this, have my own company as well. So I've been through the startup scene, or I guess part of it, and I am not technical myself. So there's also a reason I'm the only non -developer is I tried development in the past. It's something that definitely didn't align 100 % with me. I may try it in the near future just so I can really be a real expert in this area, back to front versus just kind of at a high level.

Vivian Kvam (17:28)
Hehehe

Dillon De Rozairo (17:42)
But because of that, I went through the whole startup process of taking an idea and obviously it's idea to exit everyone says, but going, taking an idea as far as you can and being non -technical as I've been in these founders shoes. So when I go talk to people and they're like, Hey, I want to build an app and I just have no idea how, and I don't know how I'm going to pay for it. And I don't know who to do it. And you know, when I go to these people, I have no idea what they're talking about is I've been in their shoes to where they can, you know, they can, I can relate to them and they can relate to me and they don't feel like they're probably being sold on something that's not, you know,

that something that they feel like they're getting sold on that they don't need. Rather there, it's like, you've been in my shoes, like you're helping me, not selling me on something. So that's kind of at least how I think I fit into this position. How I came into it was it was an initiative started by my dad, who is a serial entrepreneur here in Omaha. He runs a few different companies and kind of his workload between those.

kind of skyrocketed recently and kind of I first came on part -time to help him scale those just taking meetings wherever I could and attending events but then eventually came on full -time as it needed kind of some more fuel in the fire I say so that's kind of how I got into it but coming from a background of being a non -technical founder I think I decently fit into the position of talking to these founders as well so.

Vivian Kvam (18:59)
Yeah, that's cool. I love it. When you think about that, because I do think for a lot of folks who they have an idea, right, but it revolves around tech of some kind, whether it's a software or an app. And there can be that I have no idea how to do that. And I think a lot of business ideas stop there. What do you offer as advice?

to people who are possibly listening, yeah, I have always had this idea, but that is so outside of my ability to be able to see it come to life. When you reflect on your story, what might you offer them if you were to talk with them directly?

Dillon De Rozairo (19:40)
Well, I would say kind of the number one thing is we're here to be your kind of tech partner. But outside of obviously the innovation labs, I would say every company I somewhat think of this might, this isn't like based off of anything rather than my just own personal kind of opinion and experiences. Every business needs three, I guess, pieces to it. And that's a somewhat subject matter expert, a business expert that can manage the company and then a tech expert if it's a tech company. So it's somewhat subjective.

A lot of the times, and kind of the person you're talking about is the business expert here. So whether it's a, you know, a nurse or a doctor that wants to build something in the medical space or an athlete that wants to build something in the sports tech space, whatever it might be, they know, you know, their industry or kind of area back to front likely, or at least the area that they want to build something in. But they don't know anything about selling, marketing, you know, even stuff like payroll, all of that. They don't know how to manage employees, whatever it might be. And then they also don't know tech and that's very common.

What I always think is you can somewhat learn the business piece so you can be the subject matter expert and learn the business piece and then we're here to be your tech partner. But what I tell people is a lot of the times I've rarely seen someone that can do all three. It does exist, but it's very rare. So because of that, kind of that feeling, your feeling of is this outside of my scope? I think a lot of people will feel that, but realizing that almost no one does it really by themselves because rarely can someone wear all three hats.

Vivian Kvam (20:51)
Hmm.

Dillon De Rozairo (21:04)
I've seen, you know, a lot of the times I believe you'll wear obviously at least one hat, but ideally you can wear two and a lot of times that's the subject matter and business expert. And if you can wear both of those or you can start as a subject matter expert and while we're doing development on whatever we're building for you become the business expert and just learn how am I going to go to market and just get a base idea on how to do that. And it kind of will work with you on the other pieces as well at a high level. So that's kind of my advice is, you know,

Rarely do people do it by themselves, but those are the pieces that exist in it and kind of breaking it down on here's how you can go about doing it. And we even have access through honestly just networks of, you know, here's a person who has a business background and they have an interest in like music and you're trying to do a music platform or something. They'd be a great person with a business background and interested music to be your business piece of it.

So stuff like that where we can fit in pieces of, you know, here's your business co -founder, you're the subject matter expert, we can build the tech and you know, we can hit the ground running, stuff like that.

Vivian Kvam (22:03)
That's really cool. Are you able to share just some like examples of like when people say tech, software, apps, what are we talking about? Like what types of ideas do people come to you with? And then my follow up to that is how developed are the ideas when they come to you?

Dillon De Rozairo (22:21)
Yeah, so in terms of what kind of ideas we get, it varies and it has not been, and honestly, people always ask like, what's the best type? And there's obviously some that we see that are better in terms of like feasibility, but there's none that really like sit much better with us in terms from a development standpoint. So we get ideas in every industry. We sometimes get hardware ideas as well. We only do software, but we'll work with.

Vivian Kvam (22:31)
Hehehe

Dillon De Rozairo (22:48)
hardware companies to build the software piece of it and pair it with the hardware. But because of that, we see ideas kind of in every area and kind of broadly out there. I've even had people come to me and say like, hey, do you at least know anyone? So just trying to kind of piggyback off of our network of, you know, I'm trying to build a product, like a physical product that has no tech piece to it. And I just need someone to help me build a prototype and then obviously go do mass manufacturing. And it turned out I had someone within my network that I think could help them. So.

Stuff like that obviously comes to us, but mainly it is mostly software and then occasionally some hardware pieces. And it really is kind of industry agnostic where it's, you know, can come from anywhere. B2B seems to be a bit more common. We get less B2C type stuff, but in terms of kind of from, I guess, I don't know if platform would be the right word, but from that standpoint, we get like physical apps that'll be on your phone or softwares that are under your computer. It kind of ranges.

what will get there. And then in terms of where they're at in the process, that's what varies. So obviously the most ideal client for us is someone who's ready for development, but we also realize we can't just work with people who are ready for development because that's kind of just cherry picking at that point. And it's gonna be obviously a lot harder. What we found is we can meet with people at any stage in the process. So I meet with people all the time that are just at the idea stage and I tell them, my advice is the first thing you should do is kind of market validation or customer discovery because,

before you go out and spend money or even spend time getting a name, logo, domain, even legally registering it with the state and the government and everything, is you should make sure that your idea is actually needed. It's a solution that people are gonna want and it's not creating another problem. And I say, go out, ask people, ask your customers what they're currently using to solve the problem, what they like, what they dislike, what they wish it had. And then even somewhat slightly pitch what you're trying to build and just say, hey, if there was a solution that offered this, this, and this,

would you use it? You don't need to throw out pricing, nothing like that. You're just trying to get a base feel of would someone use this? From there, if you can determine it's feasible, then you can start moving down the process of yeah, then get a name, get a logo, get a domain, legally register it and everything, and then you can start going after more and more. Especially, you do want to get a name somewhat early on so that people start tying it to you just so that when you have conversations and you're like, hey, I just started a company today that's going to revolutionize the ride sharing space, and you say the name for it.

then a few months down the road when you're maybe just one step further, you can say the name and they might remember it. You start gathering some kind of familiarity with it in the space. So we kind of work through that, obviously legally registering it, looking at funding. We work with kind of investors in a few different spaces to help fund it. We have partners in that market validation space as well, so helping people there. Sometimes they either don't want to or can't do it. Helping people with that marketing piece of,

how do you know I don't have time or I don't want to create my own logo and I don't want to come up with a name I'm not creative or you know I don't want to go look for domains all that we have partners there as well can help with also the registration but we encourage you to do as much as you can as well we'll give you you know tool free tools to find the name and that cross -references a domain and using AI to create a logo but kind of through partners and through our own experience we can kind of help get you to.

development, but everything before then is on the table and we're more than willing to help you get access to whatever you need.

Vivian Kvam (26:14)
That's cool. When you go into processes like these, do you ever recommend that an idea is sort of like mocked up first before going into full on development as part of the validation process? I'm kind of thinking about that validation process that you mentioned, which is so important. I mean...

how often, and not even in software tech space, right? Like people are like, everyone's gonna love my thing, whatever it is. And then you get asked some questions, you're like, maybe they will, but you need to take it three steps this direction or that direction before you buy a building or get a logo, right? So when it comes to things like this, do you ever recommend that they have mocked something up, even if it's not workable? I mean, you know, like using like a Figma model or something like that.

Dillon De Rozairo (27:05)
100%, I think that's also somewhat necessary, especially when you get into the funding piece, but also that might help with market validation is to have something that you can show to people. A lot of times I would think the market validation you might be doing is in person kind of very casually or over the phone. So you might not be able to show people. If you're in a space where you can show people, I would 100 % try to get mockups in something like Figma or even create a like.

I don't know how to even put this, a functional but not functional wire frame. I've seen people do it in like Wix where it has buttons. When you click the button, it doesn't actually do anything. Or when you click it, it's really going to a different webpage rather than actually like executing on kind of action items. Doing that 100 % helps. And I think once you get to that funding piece, I wouldn't say it's maybe 100 % necessary, but I think it's really, really recommended when you go in, especially when you're going to pitch for investment to have.

some sort of base wireframe and even when you're going to apply for grants and stuff like that, it'd be really good to have it. And if you can get, I've seen somewhat functional ones where it's not, you know, people can't use it as such, but you can click it and it actually works. It just doesn't have all, you know, when you click the send email button, it'll prompt saying an email was sent, but an email wasn't actually sent, stuff like that. I think that could be really useful. And the kind of more in depth you get the wireframe without obviously spending too much money and time on it. It really kind of gets your point across of,

you know, if I go on a website and I can kind of play with the software before I even buy it, that's huge. I've seen that before and I think that's like one of the greatest things ever. When you just play around and you're not really actually doing anything, but you click the buttons and just mess around with it and get a feel for it, a hundred percent. So if you can do that when you're anywhere between market validation and actually starting development, I'd a hundred percent.

Vivian Kvam (28:30)
Mm -hmm.

Yeah, that's cool. That makes a lot of sense. And I think you can learn a lot through those processes, right? Do you ever find that people come to you and they go, we think this should be an app, let's say, and you get in process or discussion, you're like, no, it shouldn't. This could be solved with this or in a different way. Have you ever run into those stories?

Dillon De Rozairo (29:05)
Yeah, so oddly enough, and we do this on a lot of different angles as well, but we, I think a lot of people do think an app is needed. And the number one thing that we say, and this is like, this is personal, personal, like almost opinion is like, we have too many apps on our phones. Like I think everyone does. And so the number one thing, the way I look at it and the way I even treat it in my personal life or whatever reason I'd be downloading an app, the way I look at it is am I going to use this enough to justify it?

Vivian Kvam (29:20)
Yeah, for sure.

Dillon De Rozairo (29:32)
So obviously, you know, stuff like Uber or whatever it might be, you use it and you're gonna need an app. But something like a, you know, unit converter that just converts like kilograms to pounds or something. You probably don't, I don't know, maybe you do use it a lot, but most of the time you could just Google it and go to a website to convert stuff like that. So you're not probably gonna download an app. So it really depends on how much someone's gonna use it. In the B2B space, more often than not, especially when it's like.

field related stuff, an app is somewhat needed so people in the field aren't trying to navigate to a website. But if it's something that's really just not being done like almost in real time, an app might not be needed. So we tell people that all the time because not only, I guess the number one reason is it'll save them money. There is an added cost with taking something and making it a native app. So we 100 % tell people that. We also from a different standpoint, somewhat sometimes discourage people.

Vivian Kvam (30:04)
Mm -hmm.

Dillon De Rozairo (30:25)
from even building something or at least maybe starting with building something from scratch is we'll get people all the time that, you know, I want to build an app for XYZ and we tell them, you know, that's great and that's definitely an option, but try doing this low code, no code solution and just see whether it's just to get market validation or maybe it's something, it could be a permanent solution. We've had organizations that come to us that want it for what, you know, some internal use, so they're not going to monetize it. And it's,

looking at, okay, is the development cost gonna be justified by, I guess, the benefit from it versus paying maybe for a monthly subscription to license some software that already exists? And maybe it's a software that's kind of like white labeled, so you can put your own logo on it and just kind of use it. So we encourage that as well. And that ties back to the not -for -profit piece and that we can be honest, our goal is to really build companies and do what's best for them, not just make money, because our goal isn't to make money. So 100%, we're very upfront on whether,

you use another solution permanently, temporarily, and being very honest, if you are gonna get something built from scratch, on what do you actually need? Because we will try to build stuff in a way that maybe your version one is just web -based, but version two then has a native app. And that's purely from a budgeting standpoint, a timeline standpoint, really what's gonna be best for your business, and what do you need to go to market? Because the whole goal behind the company originally was just building out MVPs, and that's the number one thing, and you're probably pretty familiar with, is...

Vivian Kvam (31:35)
Hmm.

Dillon De Rozairo (31:50)
when someone wants to build something, I think they want to build it with all the bells and whistles. And you know, then you start looking at, okay, how long is it going to take and how much is it going to cost? And most people don't know where to dial back. And we will use our best judgment along with your best judgment being hopefully the subject matter expert on what you're trying to build on. What's the minimum thing you can take to market and then from there build off of it. Cause the last thing you want to do is spend, you know, maybe a year and half a million dollars or something building an app and half the stuff or

Vivian Kvam (31:54)
Yes.

Mm -hmm.

Dillon De Rozairo (32:18)
75 % of the stuff you thought was needed isn't needed and then you know, you can't get a refund on development Sadly like it, you know, it's not like that. So you've lost that's the last thing you want. So

Vivian Kvam (32:21)
Mm -hmm.

Yeah, like, hey, can you take this heart button away? I don't need it anymore. Like, yeah, we could take it away, but you still paid. You paid for the heart.

Dillon De Rozairo (32:31)
Exactly.

Exactly, yeah. So you could somewhat get it returned, but it's returned with no refund, I guess you could say.

Vivian Kvam (32:40)
Yeah, you know, and I think about, I do think that there's a big misconception. I'm so glad you're talking about that. We, as business owners in any sector, think we need to go out the gate with the most polished, beautiful, finished product, right? And I think within the software apps in the tech industry, that can come with a very hefty price tag.

And I think it can even with physical products too, if you're selling, you're designing tennis shoes and whatnot, it can be very expensive to fabricate things or to manufacture things for prototyping. But I do think in that software space, it can feel so easy to be like, we'll just add this and we'll just add this and we'll just add this. And it's like we almost, our brains don't compute how much we're adding on here, like how quickly that can add up.

When I think about some of the most used software, applications, just things that people interact with, what I think about is we as a team use Asana here for our project management. And we adopted it when it first came out. We were on like beta free versions. And I think about that and I'm like, it really solved a problem that we had at the time. And since then we have grown with it, with that. And I think a little bit too.

If I was to enter into it right now, there's almost so much that I don't know if I would love it as much as I love it because I grew with it, if that makes sense. And so another story I think of with that is Facebook. If you think back to when Facebook first came out, it was kinda clunky. I mean, compared to where it's at now, we take for granted all of the functionality that we have, but it came out the gate with.

essentially very little functionality when you really think about it and and we've grown with it and they have looked for what do people want? What do they interact with? Okay, we're going to add this and and so I just think about those things when we. It's so easy to look at the end shiny products that we see now, but if we think back and reflect to you remember when that first started like and they did well, right? Like they have done very well. Yeah. yeah.

Dillon De Rozairo (35:00)
Yeah, no, I mean, Netflix is like a great example of why you use physical DVDs. And now it's, you know, a library that you can access on any device with, I don't know, thousands, tens of thousands of movies and TV shows. And it's like, you know, the end goal, and that was given tech at the time, but the ideal thing would be to get access to as much as possible. And whether that was having some sort of red box, you know, the most ideal thing or end solution for them at the time might've been to have a red box outside every house.

Vivian Kvam (35:09)
Yes.

Mm -hmm.

Dillon De Rozairo (35:29)
and just you have access to any movie or, you know, a thousand movies outside of your house. And if that existed today, no one would use it. Cause you know, I don't own a DVD player and I don't know how many people do. So, you know, if you think too far in the future, you can even run into stuff like that. But a hundred percent of a lot of the times, especially when you're doing something that's really solving a problem that doesn't either get solved by another solution or solves it in a different way, you can go to market with something that's not bare bones, but you can go with something pretty dialed back and then build off.

Vivian Kvam (35:38)
Right?

Dillon De Rozairo (35:59)
than just building it all.

Vivian Kvam (36:00)
Yeah, it makes me think of staying really true to what is the problem you're trying to solve and does your product solve the problem? Then go. And you can add on additional features, right? This is a terrible word picture, but I'm thinking like, hey, if you want a hamburger and you get a hamburger patty on a bun with cheese, like you have a hamburger, like you have it. Now we can start adding on, you know, all the other things and yes, is it going to be?

Dillon De Rozairo (36:17)
Yeah.

Vivian Kvam (36:29)
like the most delectable gourmet burger ever. Absolutely, but the plain hamburger also solved the problem, right, of I was hungry and I wanted a hamburger. Yeah, yeah, these hamburger analogies. I must be thinking about hamburgers right now. What do you think are some of the biggest misconceptions? Have we covered them? Are there others that you run into where you're like, yeah, people don't know and I'd want them to know this?

Dillon De Rozairo (36:37)
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

Yeah, I think there are a lot of misconceptions with starting something. I think age, background, cost somewhat, and we're somewhat solving that problem. Somewhat tying into background is network. Really, I think there's a lot of misconceptions. The number one thing that I hit on is age, and I'll just start there and kind of go down the list of.

I'm only 23 and so entering this space of talking to people that are you know trying to start something and you know they think I'm just a kid and they probably when I go to events and stuff probably think I'm like looking for a job or whatever it might be is originally when I first thought about entering the space of like even starting my own thing or whatever might be I wondered going into these events would anyone take me seriously because are they gonna think I'm just a student because at the end of the day there are students that go to networking events looking for a job and that's a good idea like I there's nothing wrong with that that's a

Vivian Kvam (37:32)
haha

Mm -hmm.

Dillon De Rozairo (37:49)
honestly a really good idea because you'll run into a lot of startups and I personally think startups are better than big companies, at least in my opinion. But I went into these events and I was like, you know, is anyone gonna take me seriously because I somewhat don't know anything about business. Like I'm either starting a business or you're gonna be in one of two places, you're either very early in starting a business or you haven't started one and you're just trying to start something and that's completely okay. You can go into these events and I've heard it before.

And I mean, I haven't heard anyone say anything negative. I don't think anything negative about it is go in and literally just say, I want to start something at some point. And you can just sit there and somewhat listen and just learn a lot by just hearing these conversations of people who are starting something or who have started something and are on their next venture, whatever it might be, and learn from it. I still, and I, I say this to this day because I have no kind of shame in it is I go to these events and sometimes I hear your terms or whatever thrown around that I don't know. And it's, you know, finance term or legal term.

Vivian Kvam (38:23)
Hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Dillon De Rozairo (38:44)
whatever it might be, and I won't know. And if it's not, especially like a one -on -one conversation where someone's asking me for advice or an opinion on something, I will just wait. And as soon as I get a free moment, I'll type it in my notes. And then as soon as I get in the car or I get back home or get to a laptop or whatever, I'll look it up and try to become an expert on it so that next time it's brought up, I can speak on it. And if you can also go ahead and ask, it depends on the situation, but 100%, when you start out, you'll do a lot more listening than talking when you go to these.

but there's nothing wrong with that because no one's going to sit there and wonder why you're not talking, especially when you're at a younger age, like they know you're here to learn. So I think age is the number one misconception. I think honestly, if you're past the age of 16, you should probably be able to start something and that's just so you can drive. Even then you can, I mean, I've seen it, you can start stuff earlier than that. It just, I think that's a somewhat reasonable standpoint to start something, but if you're younger and you have an idea, I'd say go for it. So I think age is the number one thing. I think background's another huge kind of,

thing people think is bigger than it is, is you don't need to come from an entrepreneurial background to start something. I don't think, you know, even some of the biggest companies in the world were started by people whose parents were entrepreneurs or started something of their own. And that's because at the end of the day, all it is, is you seeing potential in something and wanting to pursue a solution or, you know, pursuing that potential. So I don't think you have to come from a entrepreneurial background, especially with how today works and the access to information you get through the internet at a base level, but using

Vivian Kvam (39:47)
Mm -hmm.

Dillon De Rozairo (40:11)
you know, AI and going out and networking and be able to ask subject matter experts questions on stuff. With access to so much information, you know, either ease of access through events or at the tip of your fingers through technology, I don't think you have to come from a background because you don't need to go and ask your parents or family questions when you can go get them answered by other people or the internet. So I think that's also a huge thing as well. Somewhat tying into background is money. Most if not,

I would say most businesses aren't started because someone was like, hey, I have an extra X amount of dollars that I want to put into a thing. Like a lot of the times people are starting with either nothing or they're starting with a little bit, but it's not going to fund the whole thing. And through grants and investment and maybe, yeah, for a year you have to put aside some money and bootstrap it yourself, whatever it might be, through all those different avenues, people start stuff all the time. So you don't need to come from money or an entrepreneurial background.

I think are kind of two of the biggest ones I see in this space. So I think there are a lot of misconceptions though. And I really, I don't think, I think the biggest misconception, which is maybe there is that it's easy to start one. I think people fall into one of two things and it's more in the middle and people think it's too hard to start something. And it really isn't cause it's like, you know, through networking you can get a lot and through learning, you can get a lot out of it. And so it's easier than most people somewhat think there. But then I also think people think that there's,

you know, government money to fund the whole thing and partners that can do everything at a low cost and whatever it might be. And if they think it's easier than it is, I think those are two somewhat misconceptions that really it falls in the middle of. It's not hard, but it's also not easy. Like it will require you to put in some effort, but there's also access to a lot of resources that make it easier. So.

Vivian Kvam (41:58)
Yeah, I've been thinking about this a lot. I actually had a friend who challenged me recently and he said, Vivian, I think you should start teaching people your way of being an entrepreneur. And I was like, I'm not sure if I have a way, you know? He's like, yeah, you do. You need to think about it and come up with what the process is. I'd be really curious to know what the process is. And I'm like, okay, what is the process, you know? And so in...

thinking or reflecting on that and what you're saying, it's just prompting this more, so thank you, of you're exactly right in that it isn't easy and it isn't hard. It is, I think, consistency is what keeps coming to my mind and you're spurring for me right now. And for some people, consistency is very easy and for others, it's really hard. And I think this is where we get these ideas of like,

it's so easy. It's effortless. Everything just fell into their lap. And we also get this misconception of it's so hard, like nothing's coming my way. And I think it has a lot to do with very small, consistent behaviors. So I'm still fleshing this out and thinking it through. But as you're talking, when I think about people who are successful in starting a business and maintaining a business, they put in consistent effort.

That doesn't mean they were like eating gruel and at the grindstone. There was a huge hype around this. I feel like it's starting to go away now where it was like, you're not an entrepreneur unless you are suffering, right? Like literally sweating blood and sitting on backless chairs and eating ramen. Like if that's not you and there are any of you crammed into one dorm room starting a thing, like you're not really an entrepreneur.

And that was a real thing. I remember that in my 20s and having, and I was like, well, I'm not gonna do that. I don't wanna do that. That looks terrible. And then I think it falls on the other end of the internet's made everything easy. You can sit back and, I was just talking on another podcast interview, actually right before this one, people have this idea that you could just send an email and make a million dollars, right?

Dillon De Rozairo (44:16)
Yeah.

Vivian Kvam (44:17)
Well, yeah, you can if you've been really consistent about nurturing and building that. So, yeah, I just think that's important. I'm so glad that you talked about that. It is about hard work, but I think it's more about consistent work. And that's the hard part, right? I mean, no one, it's not very sexy, really, when you think about it. It's like, yeah, it is actually showing up and consistently answering emails, consistently paying the bills, consistently looking at your numbers.

Dillon De Rozairo (44:35)
100%.

Vivian Kvam (44:46)
consistently being the person that you are in your leadership style with your people. Like, that's hard. That's hard. It's hard freaking work.

Dillon De Rozairo (44:56)
Yeah, no, a hundred percent. I, I a hundred percent agree. And that's the thing is I think what might scare some people off, but what really is the reality of it is you could spend, you know, every day for, you know, a year, if not years going after something like a startup or whatever, a company pursuing an idea and it could fail and then you could do it again and it could fail.

And it's literally, it is going to be days and just a long period of time of consistently doing stuff with no result. And then the end result could be that it fails and you just have to go and pursue something else or slightly pivot. And that is somewhat the reality of like, you'll run into roadblocks and you'll run into stuff that you just don't know how to get past this. And it's what I just say is like somewhat block and tackle, or you just solve one problem after another. And at some point, especially if you're just.

consistent, I find it hard to believe that you can fail. So, you know, you've heard stories probably of, you know, founders who failed their first nine startups and their 10th one succeeded and it took them a decade and it was a year every startup and every day they were working on that. And that's sometimes the case. You obviously hope your first one goes well and you know, you hope it's a cakewalk and sometimes it is somewhat like I think some people have an easier way and it just depends on what you're doing and.

Vivian Kvam (46:04)
Mm -hmm.

Dillon De Rozairo (46:15)
you know, luck, but whatever it might be. But I think that consistent dedication and hard work to doing something every day and realizing you're not going to get the result, you know, within a few days, few weeks, few months, few years, even if you're okay and can push through that, I think you'll be successful. So a hundred percent. I think that's kind of the name of the game is just constantly attacking something and at some point you'll succeed.

Vivian Kvam (46:38)
Yeah, and this is such an interesting, I feel like we could just have a whole conversation on this. A lot of people will approach me and ask, should I quit my day job? Or is there security? There's not gonna be any security. And it's just gonna be, I have so much security in my job, or what's the payoff, et cetera. And there's so many times I look at it and go, you know, we're really doing the same thing. You can stay if that is something you like in a...

Typical nine to five job and there is nothing wrong with that. But do realize that to get to the big payoff, it's you showing up consistently and putting in the hard work every day. If you think that over here on this side in entrepreneurial world that there's some fast track, there isn't, right? Like you're still gonna show up every day and put in the consistent work. And in your nine to five, you could put in your consistent work for 14 years and get laid off.

You know, you can put in the consistent work in the entrepreneur world for 14 years and the idea not pan out. So like at the end of the day, sometimes I'm like, we're really just, it's not that different. You're just picking the path that you want to follow and like you have a passion for. And so there's no right or wrong. Like there's no, well, life is better if you're an entrepreneur or not. I like my life as an entrepreneur. And I like to encourage people who are thinking they might think they'd like this life. Like, yeah, come on over and give it a try.

you know, but end of the day, like as humans, we just have to put the consistent work in to see the results that we want. And sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't and we have to start over again.

Dillon De Rozairo (48:18)
No, a hundred percent. I think that's, that's a hundred percent true. And I a hundred percent agree in that. Yeah. Like what you said, I was, when you said laid off, I was also thinking like you could work at a company for X years and be trying, you know, as hard as you can. And then you get overlooked for a promotion that you've been chasing for so long. And it's the same thing. You could chase after or build an idea.

Vivian Kvam (48:19)
Yeah.

Totally.

Dillon De Rozairo (48:40)
And I mean, it happens all the time. Like the idea gets stolen by a bigger company or something and you hope obviously this stuff never happens, but a million and one things can cause a startup to fail and a million and one things can cause your path through maybe a big company to fail as well. They're both equally, you know, somewhat risky. And so you just gotta check, exactly. You just gotta choose which one you're somewhat more comfortable with. And it's once again, very much aligning with kind of the person you are in the life you want to live, I think as well, cause.

Vivian Kvam (48:57)
Devastating, yeah.

Dillon De Rozairo (49:06)
you're probably very familiar with this is there's obviously some days when you're somewhat your own boss, you can say, where you don't have to work. But then there's also some days where you're working nonstop and you don't have any breaks. And I think it's also factoring in, you have to be the kind of person that maybe you don't work a day because you want to take the day off or whatever, but then realizing somewhat of the loss that's associated with that and factoring in like, okay,

Vivian Kvam (49:11)
Mm -hmm.

Dillon De Rozairo (49:30)
you have to determine your almost work -life balance if that's a thing, though I almost somewhat don't think that's a thing with entrepreneurship. But that's the, you know, the work and life balance is just almost like different proportions when you're talking about entrepreneurship. So 100%, I agree. I think it's a, I don't think there's anything wrong, once again, with doing kind of the nine to five and working towards something on that level, because that's for some people as well.

sometimes the stress and the risk and all of what's associated with starting something can drive people crazy. You know, people who are pursuing it and people who gave up or people who don't want to pursue it, all of the above. And so I really do think it's kind of the person you are and seeing if you're, if you want it, what path you want to go down. Cause I think the same kind of almost those same things of stress and maybe anxiety, whatever it might be, all those things that you can go through.

with entrepreneurship or that might be thought as entrepreneurship, I think I would probably experience those in a big company because I'm like, if I'm one of a team of a hundred doing something, I'd get like, it drives me crazy. I'm like, you know, I'm never going to be able to make a name for myself and I'm never going to be able to really have control over what I'm doing, stuff like that. So.

Vivian Kvam (50:41)
Yeah, different flavors for sure. Are there any, when you think about just managing your life and business and that stress levels do come up, are there like favorite tools you like to use or practices in your life you like to use? What would that be?

Dillon De Rozairo (51:03)
Yeah. so I'm somewhat, I'm a, I'm a very organized person by nature. With that being said, I'm also someone who somewhat thinks like, I try to do as much as I can on my own. So when I started and kind of as I've added stuff on, I used to, my notes used to be in my head. And then once I added like two or three technical verticals to my life, I was like, Hey, this is getting too much. Like there are, it's, there's a hundred items across three lists and my brain has them like all scattered and it dropped a few.

Vivian Kvam (51:20)
Mmm.

Dillon De Rozairo (51:31)
And so I used to just do it as bad as it sounds in my iPhone notes. I used to just write it line by line, but not have it categorized. And I was like, it started to get to a point where I was like, okay, some of these verticals need more attention at certain times than I do. So like, whether it's one company over my personal life or both companies over personal or a hobby or whatever it might be, or just basic to -dos. And so I now move to, I run everything out of Trello. So I use Trello.

And that's for personal and work and I use it more rather than project management as just like a to -do list So that's the number one thing I have Outside of that I oddly enough just to have so much going on that I don't have too much structure But I'm not a person who needs structure like I don't set aside an hour a day to go through emails I'm more of the person that like I'll answer emails whenever I breaks throughout the day and just get it knocked out But I'm also once again, then you know I'll answer an email while I'm sitting at a stoplight or I'll answer an email while I'm on the elevator

Anytime I have a break, I try to be productive because of how I structure it. So that might not be the best. That might drive some people crazy, but I do think having at least a split system somewhere, whether it's Trello or even in a notes, whether it's a Google doc or iPhone notes, I think just having it split up so you know what you have to do and then tackling it. And I think that also the number one thing is putting priority prioritization on it on whether it's a deadline or just what's basically more important. And like that might be.

what's going to get you to your goal the fastest and whether that goal is a certain dollar amount or whatever it might be, putting prioritization on it and then just blocking and tackling. It kind of is my at least outlook on it. But I'm definitely not probably the most organized person in that space. So don't know if my system's the best, but I do think it somewhat worked for me and I quickly kind of got into that. And so far I have yet to see any problems with it. So.

Vivian Kvam (53:17)
Yeah, and you know, gosh, I'm thinking about this a little bit. I think our systems change as our lives change. And you just highlighted that, right? Like, hey, I was at this life stage, this worked, and then as life stages changed, I realized I needed something else. And being open to that, right, and looking for tools and adding things in, I think can be very helpful. I know I've definitely found that. I was probably much more like you.

in when I started business, which I was like 20 between 23, 26, right? And I was very similar. Like I kind of had a more of a ping around, right? So I was always a list person. But yeah, I'm answering emails in between this and that and the nooks and crannies. Now, I can't I can't or don't want to I'm not sure what the shift is, but life has shifted. Part of it is probably adding some kiddos, things like that.

And so I have to have new systems and that's okay. Like finding the systems and being flexible. And so I love that. I don't think there is a right or wrong. It's just nice to hear what other people are doing. And you're like, yeah, I'm gonna give that a try and see if I can answer from the elevator and be like, yeah, I totally can or no, I can't. Like I'm getting elevator sick here. Like, you know? So that's great. Well, Dylan, I have a couple of rapid fire questions I'm gonna ask you that are just fun. Kind of bring these together, but.

Dillon De Rozairo (54:14)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Vivian Kvam (54:41)
Before we do that, I just want to thank you for making something that for many can feel intimidating, just feel much more approachable. And I love how you broke things down and just thinking through whether you're launching a piece of software or an app or something else. I feel like there's so many lessons that you shared. So thank you for being just generous and sharing those. As well as addressing, before we hopped on here, is the age piece is just something that I don't think a lot of people talk about.

And so I appreciate you bringing that up, especially for those out there who maybe are on like the younger years end of getting started with something. I have to say I can relate in that when I started, I was 20, 23, 26 was kind of like the main years I was getting started. And I cut my hair differently. I dressed differently. I carried certain types of bags with my computer, literally trying, cause I was so,

fearful of looking young, right? Like literally physically appearing too young to be in the room. And that was a lot for me to have to like figure out and overcome and work through. So I really appreciate you just talking about that. Yeah. Okay. If folks want to reach out to you, let's cover that before we go into these kind of rapid fire questions.

Dillon De Rozairo (55:54)
No, 100%.

Vivian Kvam (56:02)
If somebody's thinking, hey, this might be for me, I have an idea, I have it sketched on a napkin, or I have a full prototype ready to go, what's the best approach as far as getting a hold of you and Nebraska Innovation Labs? What steps do they need to take? Where do they go?

Dillon De Rozairo (56:17)
Yeah, I would say the number one thing, and it's gonna be the easiest thing, but maybe also the hardest thing is, I would say the number one thing I use is LinkedIn. And so I'm assuming my name will be somewhere on this. And so if you wanna reach out to me, number one place is LinkedIn. Otherwise, and I'm open to contact there anyways, but LinkedIn, if you go to our website, you can give us a call, you can give us an email, I get all those and can kind of get back to you very quickly.

Vivian Kvam (56:27)
Perfect. Yes, yes.

Dillon De Rozairo (56:45)
and so our website is neinnovationlabs .com. so, you know, go there and you can also look at kind of and get a better idea. if I didn't cover anything on there that, you know, is related to what we do, and then you can reach out all our information's on there. But I would say the number one thing is LinkedIn. shoot me a connection request, shoot me a message. Love to set something up and it can be in any space, whether you have an idea to start something, whether you're a developer, whether you're a partner or you do marketing, legal, whatever it might be, and you want to kind of join our network.

really anything that was covered today, even if you think it's a bit of a stretch, reach out to me. I love talking because I, at the end of the day, really don't think there's any such thing as a bad conversation. I think, you know, there's one way it can work out or another, whether it's something you do or someone you know. So love to chat. So.

Vivian Kvam (57:31)
awesome and I do hope people are hearing your heart of you don't have to have it all figured out to reach out and have a conversation. I think Dylan you're you're very approachable. We've talked before of like no for real. You can reach out and Dylan will steer you in the right direction and we don't do we don't do business and entrepreneurism alone. You have to pull people in so I think thanks Dylan for being that person for so many out there. Okay a couple couple questions for you okay.

Dillon De Rozairo (57:56)
Yeah, no worries. Go.

Vivian Kvam (58:00)
All right, we talked about this a little bit, but I'm gonna ask it again. What do you think is the biggest misconception about owning a business?

Dillon De Rozairo (58:10)
but it's easier.

Vivian Kvam (58:11)
Yeah. And rewind, listen to discussion again. Yeah. Is there an important piece of advice that you've been given any time in life and you've actually applied to your business?

Dillon De Rozairo (58:14)
on it.

though that's a tricky one.

somewhat, this is like a bit of more of a broad advice and that's with anything you do, whether it's work related or personal related, whatever it might be, that there is always the risk that it fails, but then you factor in the, there's either you deal with the, you know, the failure of it or knowing that you never tried. And I think that's huge to me. And my outlook on it is, again, I know my personality type of just being driven and relentless is,

I will repeatedly try stuff and if it repeatedly fails, I'll keep going. And when it does succeed, that's all that matters. And it's literally the repeated rejections and the repeated nos and the repeated failures until one of them hits and is successful. And that's the only one that matters. Then everyone prior to that just led you there and it didn't really have too much effect, hopefully if you weren't all in. So that's kind of my advice. It's very high level that can be applied to almost anything.

Vivian Kvam (59:29)
Yeah, I love that. I've been thinking about this question. I might start asking people, what's a piece of advice you've been given and you wish you applied? I think there's some of those too. To this day, there's things where I'm like, gosh, I wish I had listened to that. I probably should do that now for sure. On just a fun note, do you have a favorite sort of kickback and relax beverage?

Dillon De Rozairo (59:38)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Not really, honestly, no. I'm just a kind of go with the flow, whatever. I'm not like huge as such into drinking, as you could say, but I like anything that tastes good. That's really broad as a terrible answer, but yeah, no, nothing specific, so.

Vivian Kvam (1:00:09)
Yeah. Yeah, no, that's fair. I have to chuckle about this because every time people are like, like, you mean alcohol? And I'm like, well, I guess it doesn't have to be. I enjoy all kinds of different things. I'm really into these, I think I mentioned it in the last podcast, bubblers, which are like a seltzer water. I really like them. I was on the whole bubbly for a while and now I'm like, that is trash. I really like these bubblers. So yeah.

Dillon De Rozairo (1:00:16)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I guess mine might be then like cherry Coke. I just love anything cherry. So cherry Coke's good.

Vivian Kvam (1:00:39)
Okay, yeah, nice. See, for me, the cherry flavors have never resonated. I just have not found that I love it, but strawberry flavors, I'll go for. And I've yet to see anybody actually nail a watermelon flavor. Like, no, that's not, they put it on candies, and I was like, no, yeah.

Dillon De Rozairo (1:00:50)
Yeah.

Yeah. Somewhat, I think that's somewhat accurate. Yeah. I heard someone close to me say like all cherry stuff kind of tastes like cough syrup or like medicine. And so I think that's, that can be accurate. It hurt me a little bit when they said that, but I was like, you know, I can somewhat kind of see where you're coming from. And then they were the same. They said they liked strawberry. So I think it's not a, not a, not a uncommon outlook. So.

Vivian Kvam (1:01:05)
Yeah.

that's a good thing.

Maybe it's because they made so many children's medicines cherry flavor and not strawberry. So it's just a generational thing. Dylan, is there a song that you just can't get out of your head right now or a book or a podcast that you can't stop talking about?

Dillon De Rozairo (1:01:21)
Yeah. Yeah. That's fair.

Hmm. As bad as it sounds, I've moved now from, I listen to music when I'm at the gym is about it. Otherwise I'm like tired of listening to music. I think all of the songs I listen to are overplayed. And then this is also going to sound bad because I think it's very entrepreneurial to read, but I do not read almost at all. so podcasts, there's not a specific one, but I like a few different people in the podcast space, just listening to that. And there's ones that I'll listen to on repeat that just have really good kind of advice behind them.

Vivian Kvam (1:01:52)
Yeah.

Mm -hmm. Yeah, that's fair. That's fair. There are definitely podcasts I listen to for the person's voice. Absolutely. One of our favorite books we talk about around here a lot is Never Split the Difference, and he reads his own. Chris Voss reads his own, and he's got a good voice. That's a good one, and it's a good book. Is there anything that really is just exciting about the future for you right now?

Dillon De Rozairo (1:02:04)
but not necessarily a specific one.

yeah yeah yeah

I think this is, and this hopefully will play in, especially anyone that listened and really resonated with the age thing of the scariest thing, I think when you're in your twenties or when you're young in general is not knowing. But on the other end of that, that should be the most exciting thing in that you have so much potential. Like the craziest thing to me, and I think about this all the time, is I could drop everything I'm doing right now and with a little bit of money move to like.

I don't know, Bali or something like that and just like live on the beach and do like nothing at all. Or like I could take a year and go travel the world. Like when you're in your twenties, especially, and it depends on your circumstances, but most people, you just don't have any thing tying you down to a certain location and you don't have like, you can do whatever you want and you don't want to go crazy. But kind of that, yeah, or that that's the thing is like, you can do that and it, you know, likely won't be an issue, but.

Vivian Kvam (1:03:00)
You

Mm -hmm. Or go crazy, why not?

Dillon De Rozairo (1:03:23)
you have so much that you can do and not a lot that's preventing you from doing that. And so to not be scared by that, but rather just go out and try stuff like try a startup. Maybe you hate it. Try working for a startup. Maybe you hate it. Try working for a big company. Maybe you hate it. Do a ton of different stuff. Go between industries, work at different companies, different industries, try stuff, try different hobbies. You might find a company that lines with a hobby and that's also great.

but literally just trying stuff, move around if you can. Doing all of that and just trying so many different things I think will lead you to finding something that you really resonate with. So I think while most people think that's the scariest thing, and it is scary, not knowing, like, especially when you go through, I think, when you go through school for 12 to 16 years or however long you go through school, it's so structured and then you get out into post -graduation and it's not structured. And that scares people and that scared me. The first day after I graduated, I was like,

Vivian Kvam (1:04:15)
Mm.

Dillon De Rozairo (1:04:20)
Wow, I have free time, like what do I do? So I know that's supposed to be a quick answer, but kind of that's at least how I look.

Vivian Kvam (1:04:22)
I'm going to go to bed.

No, that's great. And yeah, absolutely. And it can be easy to go, this feels uncomfortable, so I'm just going to jump into this job or whatnot. Not a bad choice, necessarily, but it's OK to be a little uncomfortable. Sometimes we find some really cool things when we just allow ourselves to be uncomfortable, which is a hard place to be, though, for sure. OK, I think I've got two more here for you. What's something people often get wrong about you?

Dillon De Rozairo (1:05:02)
Honestly, somewhat like my background, my age and the situation in terms of how the Innovation Labs came to be, how I came into it. It really is something that obviously was started previously before I even joined and it's something that I came into, but based on my background and based on kind of even the work I've put in at the time I've been here is something that I very much feel like is within my wheelhouse. So I think that's the number one thing of how I came into it and how I'm running it and my goals for it is,

I feel like based on my background and based on my personality, I think it's a fair fitting, I guess you could say.

Vivian Kvam (1:05:38)
Mm -hmm, yeah, that's cool. All right, last one for you. What do you feel like business owners can do that makes the world a better place?

Dillon De Rozairo (1:05:46)
not have your main goal be money, especially at the start, but in general, like really believing in your solution and really believing in what you're doing and seeing all the trickle -down effects. Cause yeah, at a base level, you can make a product and go out and sell it, but realizing, yeah, you'll make money off of selling it, but realize like people are buying it likely because they need it or want it. And that will have some positive effect on them. But then also the people you hire, whether it's throughout the course of doing it, or once you're established and continue to hire,

those people are then making money that makes them hopefully happy and, or, you know, that shouldn't be their main happiness, but that you're giving them a purpose. And so there's so many trickle -down effects of starting something I think is tied into not just being focused on money, but rather being focused on all kind of the positive benefits that everyone gets out of your venture. And you also get a ton as well outside of money, and you should want to get a ton outside of money as well. Your main driver shouldn't be money, because then, you know, there's obviously cons associated.

Vivian Kvam (1:06:22)
Mm -hmm.

Dillon De Rozairo (1:06:46)
so.

Vivian Kvam (1:06:47)
Yeah, I love that. I mean, there is such a trickle effect like you talk about, and it's one of the things I love about owning a business is that I get to control the effect that I have on others. And with that comes a lot of responsibility too, right? Like making sure that I'm in a good place and there have certainly been stages of life where I have not been. And that has a direct interplay on our team.

clients and vendors the whole way down. Well, thank you so much, Dylan. This has been really fun. I'm glad we met. I'm glad I scanned your card and it started a conversation. And yeah, this is good. And I really do hope that folks reach out to you just with questions or with ideas and see some really cool projects come to life from even listening to this, whether it is in the tech or software space or maybe it's in something else. So yeah.

Dillon De Rozairo (1:07:25)
Yeah.

Yeah, looking forward to chatting and thank you for having me. It was a great conversation. Happy to be on.

Vivian Kvam (1:07:47)
Absolutely.